Ubuntu VM for Lisp exploration and experimentation

While projects such as Lisp in a Box and Lisp Starter Pack have gone a long ways towards making it easier to get started with Lisp, I still find it largely painful to dig deep when using Windows.

I'm preparing an Ubuntu VM for VMWare Player for Lisp experimentation. At present it's fairly minimal - a base installation with Emacs 23.1, SBCL 1.0.35, and a few version control clients installed. I intend to add on a few commonly used packages and sample code.

(My main interest is in programming for the web so I'll likely include additional packages for that purpose - along with sample code to get up and running quickly (e.g. the Reddit clone if I can locate the source.))

Is anyone interested in getting a copy when I've made more progress?

If anyone has suggestions for programs/libraries/examples to install, I'm all ears.

Walter

To be honest, I think installing a base Debian install in the VM, and using PuTTY and an X Server for Windows(not sure which would be best, there's some weird shit going down, and I've been off windows for a while) would be better.
Less memory usage, no need to run the stuff in a separate root window or emulate video hardware at all.

Should be able to ssh to the IP of the VM with X forwarding on and start up Emacs.
Then you just... use Emacs.

TheGZeus wrote:PuTTY and an X Server for Windows(not sure which would be best, there's some weird shit going down, and I've been off windows for a while) would be better.

Point taken.

Question though: what are the limits of X's network transparency? For example, if someone wanted to write a graphical game in Lisp, could they run into problems?

Thanks!

WalterGR wrote:Question though: what are the limits of X's network transparency? For example, if someone wanted to write a graphical game in Lisp, could they run into problems?

As long as the game isn't graphics intensive or try using hardware rendering (e.g. DirectX or OpenGL), it should be fine.

I accessed my linux desktop via xming on windows for a month while waiting for a video card warranty repair. After disabling a couple effects (e.g. animated panel hiding), performance wasn't too bad. And that was over a real network connection.

For a local VM/xming connection, I'd expect performance to be close to the VM's software rendering. That said, why require the X server in addition to the VM?

Thanks for the info.

nuntius wrote:That said, why require the X server in addition to the VM?

(The following is all predicated on people being interested in a VM...) I envision a VM as being useful to a wide range of people, including

• people who don't have a lot of *nix experience, and may prefer graphical tools
• people who want to write Lisp games
• people who want to use Lisp to interact with other desktop programs
• etc.

Bandwidth and disk space is abundant, so I can't see a reason to not include an X server.

Walter

WalterGR wrote:Question though: what are the limits of X's network transparency? For example, if someone wanted to write a graphical game in Lisp, could they run into problems?

Depends on what you mean by "limits."
X is network-based by design. This is mostly invisible on *nix platforms because it defaults to using Unix pipes where the client and server are on the same host.

To give a more useful answer to your specific question, it depends on the latency and throughput of the connection, and on how demanding the application is. If the client is on the Ubuntu VM and the server is on the Windows host in which the VM is a guest, network latency is unlikely to be your limiting factor.

You could always include things that are only useful with an X server, so that the Lisp environment is available regardless.

JamesF wrote:

WalterGR wrote:Question though: what are the limits of X's network transparency?

Depends on what you mean by "limits." X is network-based by design.

Right. Let me rephrase that:

What kinds of programs (if any) aren't remotable over X? (e.g. OpenGL-based games?)

IMO, any games that will have problems over X would have problems under the VM anyway.

I still don't understand why you would prefer running xming under mswin rather than straight-up X under the VM. The former requires more software than the latter.

nuntius wrote:IMO, any games that will have problems over X would have problems under the VM anyway.

I still don't understand why you would prefer running xming under mswin rather than straight-up X under the VM. The former requires more software than the latter.

Actually, it requires much less.
Why run an entire GNOME desktop for Emacs and SBCL?
That's hundreds of megabytes right there.
Then you add in Ubuntu add-ons like beagle desktop search, notifications...

By running the VM as a server and xming as the client, this avoids duplicating functionality (clock, taskbar, window manager, desktop manager, menu(why, when you're just writing code in one language?), needlessly. The disk space difference alone is going to be non-trivial.

You gain the ability to truly control the size of your applications (no root window, limited to whatever resolution), and lose the weirdness of running a window manager in a window manager.

nuntius wrote:I still don't understand why you would prefer running xming under mswin rather than straight-up X under the VM. The former requires more software than the latter.

It's not a preference. That was TheGZeus's suggestion, and I was curious about its limits.